You’re right, I gave for granted they must’ve been just as widespread overseas, as they were here in Europe.
Consider the first party component cables are probably around 40-50 bucks, and those were widely available in NA. First party SCART would likely be more expensive than that.
This was a very informative episode. Thanks! I need to hook up my PS2 to the FM and determine if I prefer the FM or my TV. I still have a working 20GB PS3 but I think I would want it reballed before I consider putting it back in to production.
Thanks for watching everyone! It was such a ridiculously difficult undertaking, and I’m so glad it’s out there and I can play Mario Odyssey now.
Regarding point 1, we mentioned briefly that 480p is not considered the Framemeister’s strong suit, but we didn’t get into exactly why. Personally I don’t mind it, but I do agree that I don’t plan to play 480p stuff through the Framemeister since the OSSC does it so cleanly.
As for point 2, lag is mentioned toward the end of the PS3 section, but we were intentionally vague because we felt our results couldn’t be considered conclusive. I’m not the biggest lag stickler personally (I don’t play rhythm games and I’m not overly sensitive to it), so simply playing the games, it’s not something that stuck out in a huge way to me (when lag is REALLY bad, I do notice).
But I did do some tests. The disappointing thing is that I was getting identical results on a CRT as I was to my 4K TV (which has extremely low lag). Since we know the HDMI output MUST have lag due to the deinterlacing process, if a CRT gives the same results, then it cannot be as responsive as a real PS2. My testing method was to shoot at 60fps, turning on a wired DualShock 3’s LED to make the “No controller detected” message in Mega Man X8 disappear. Measuring the frames between LED light-up and message going away, and seeing the same results regardless of connection method or screen, it gives me the feeling that yes, there must be lag. How much? I don’t know. We need to leave that to people who have more robust means of testing lag.
Again, Guitar Hero 2 and 3 for PS2 have a decent lag test and don’t require a guitar controller. Do the test with the audio turned off. It’s fairly objective. Similar to 240p test suite lag test.
I did this back in the day and I can’t remember the numbers but I confirmed that the launch (no emulation!) PS3 had lag playing PS2 games even via 480i component output to CRT. I no longer have a backwards compatible PS3 (and I’m pretty sure I don’t have Guitar Hero 2 any more either).
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Your old PS1 RGB cable should be good for PS1 if it has 220uf caps. However, based on tests I did using some testing equipment that HD Retrovision let me borrow, higher capacitance continues to give slightly better results for PS1 than even 220uf (1000 is overkill, but still technically “better”). Even if you use a 220uf cable with PS2 (as I have for a while), the “issues” are extremely minor and you won’t notice them unless the scene is really bright. But it’s cool that we have better options for purchasing PS2 RGB cables now, or even cables that are designed to accommodate the differences in RGB output between the two systems.
That was my initial thought - I thought hey, this proves no lag, right? But I also don’t know if the Guncon, while plugged into the PS3, has the timings of when it reads the screen timed to the video output? I wasn’t able to gather enough information on this to feel confident that the PS3 has no lag in analog mode - in fact, I’m quite convinced it does, but I don’t think my results are as thoroughly scientific as they need to be to make a definitive claim.
Thanks! This was a huge part of the episode and it took time to not get the refresh line to appear in the shots. The shot of Yuna from X-2 near the beginning when we say to watch the episode in 60fps, that is the exact same shot side-by-side, but I nested the left clip in a 30fps sequence. It really makes 480i look exactly like 240p.
Great super informative episode as always. The DF Retro section was a fun crossover, too.
Until the in depth 480i explanation I had always assumed that the PS2 lacked power compared to its contemporaries, hence the smaller percentage of titles in 480p. But this doesn’t quite add up – consider RE Code Veronica which on the Dreamcast supports 480p but the PS2 port only 480i. Does the PS2 render the same frame to the framebuffer regardless of interlacing? Is there a memory savings when outputting 480i hence the reduced color depth at 480p?
Just wanted to say Awesome Video! and congrats on getting it done!
I’m not quite the right person to answer this, but I think depending on the game’s rendering setup, there can be a memory savings. In other situations, perhaps not. As John explained, Baldur’s Gate Dark Alliance uses field rendering, but super-sampled from a much higher resolution, which is why it looks so clean. I believe there is still memory savings even in this case, but my understanding of how the framebuffer is drawn is not so good!
That was ridiculously comprehensive. Great job, guys! I think this one pushed over the edge towards buying an OSSC.
Slowly making my way through the episode, loving it so far!
Have to share: I was watching it while my daughter (4) was having a snack. The PS3 showed up on screen (41’) and she was like, “Is that a plane? Or is it a bus?” lol! George Foreman grill has nothing on a plane or a bus.
I’m just glad they confirmed some component cables have death grips lol. Was worried it was just me!
The Dreamcast had double the VRAM of the PS2 (along with a sharper output, but more limited in terms of the broad resolution support of PS2). I speculate (could be wrong) that this made it a lot easier to render to a 480p video buffer on DC. PS2 had more processing power but developers had to learn tricks to effectively target 480p using the limited VRAM.
The new episode Modern & Retro Gaming on 4K TVs is out! Possibly the most I’ve ever anticipated a YouTube video – after I heard the episode might release over the weekend I was checking my YouTube subscriptions every couple hours just in case I missed the new video notification, haha.
I’m only about half way through but like any MLiG episode there’s tons of excellent content here that of course looks great too. The section on 4k@60z and 18Gbps should be super helpful. I had to learn that not everything was 4k@60hz the hard way when I first connected a Macbook Pro to my 4k screen to play Super Meat Boy, and it turned out the only 4k refresh rate the laptop would output was 30hz. It took far longer than I’d like to admit before I finally questioned why such a highly regarded, low-spec game seemed so choppy and dropped down to 1080p.
Watched this right after it went up. Was really impressed with all the information. Really well done @Try4ce & @CouryC. I’ve been especially happy with 720p content on my 4K TV including OSSC outputting 240p content at that res.
Only thing I felt was lacking was no mention of the OSSC’s upsample2x mode when they mentioned 480p 2x mode but I guess that’s more for an OSSC feature update video.
Can anyone recommend a Mini Display Port to HDMI 2.0 cable or adapter?
My graphics card is a little older and doesn’t have hdmi 2.0, but the mini display port will run at 4k60. I’m not sure what specs I should be looking for out of that port.
The one I use (for a MacBook Pro) is ICZI brand. As long as they guarantee 4K@60Hz you’re golden.
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So my cables came in and it’s a bit confusing.
I have an mini display port to hdmi adapter which clearly states 4K60. That part seems good. The monoprice HDMI 2.0 cable doesn’t seem to work with it.
So I have this old hdmi cable that I used instead.
It clearly states it will only run at 30 FPS.
But I played a couple games at 4K and my FRAPS is reporting them running at 60 fps. Not only that, but I’ve set the hdmi port on the tv to only accept HDMI 2.0 (TCL 55R617).
I don’t know what’s going on. It seems smooth but it’s possible FRAPS is reporting the computer output and not the tv? Or the games aren’t displaying 4K when they’re set to that resolution?
No idea.
And I don’t mean to directly ask you to fix my problem, I’m just putting it out there