CRT Insecurities

[Orbitmorning]

This post may seem dumb… but I’m done worrying about that:

I just got a Magnavox 20MT1331/17. I finally got a CRT. I got it from a guy near me who repairs crts and he was able to calibrate it for me as well. I was lucky to get because curved screen CRTs that are the right size for my place (20") is not too common where I live. It is only composite with mono video (and RF) but it was what was available at that time I got it. I grew up playing N64, PS2, and Wii on a crt over composite using whatever cables came with the system and I was hoping to use this TV to play systems and games I missed out on (NES, SNES, Genesis, Gamecube) as well as use my old systems to replay games I still have as well/ new ones I never did (Basically NES generation through Gamecube/PS2/Wii, maybe some DVD via PS2 and VHS as well). I even played Wii and PS2 over composite on my old smaller HDTV as well (I did get component cables at one point for the PS2 but I didn’t like how progressive scan made games look, like jagged and pixelated edges).

I think I’ve been lurking on the crtgaming subreddit for too long, because now I feel that the consensus is that using anything less than S-Video I wont be able to to get the best out of these systems and enjoy and appreciate the games.

There are no TVs being sold around me that have anything better for the size I need (unless I spend 300-500$ on a RGB modded TV).

Am I overreacting and overthinking? Is this TV good enough for the systems I want to use? I didn’t care when I was a kid and just used whatever cables came with the system, but that subreddit kind of ruined it a bit for me (my fault, not the subs). Just was on my mind while at work today, it’s the slow season.

PS: I’ll probably get external shielded speakers to get stereo audio

Also, you guys got great setups from what I’ve seen. All the crazy TVs like PVM/BVMs and such.

[bobble]

The best CRT is the one you have already!! Love the one you’re with

Composite is great - and it’ll be accurate to what you remember! Plug in and play.

No joke - playing games is fun!! Don’t get lost in the details or comparison stuff. That TV is perfect!

[akumagorath]

Composite is plenty good enough, don’t overthink these things. That subreddit has too many people hyper fixated on small imperfections, as long as your set doesn’t have any glaring issues with geometry or otherwise, you can still enjoy the low lag, amazing motion clarity, and scanlines/blending of pixel art

[poptart]

@Orbitmorning

because now I feel that the consensus is that using anything less than S-Video I wont be able to to get the best out of these systems and enjoy and appreciate the games

If you can’t appreciate games the same way you played them as a kid it’s not a problem with the TV it’s an attitude problem.

You want the truth? If you keep chasing better quality there’s really no end to the rabbit hole. You end up spending way, way more time (and money) trying to get a better setup than you do playing games.

If you plug in a console via composite and you can sit and have fun why let anyone else spoil that for you?

[Tchiko]

For me RGB and composite are two different styles on CRT, enjoy the one you have.

All my consoles are RGB but I still play with rca cables sometimes, it’s even my favorite way to play the N64 or F-Zero SFC.

Definitely take a stereo output, very important on my own opinion, and I recommend to put the sharpness setting of your tv, if you can, to zero. It reduce drastically the noise of composite. The color setting must be lower compare to an RGB setting too (in the end as you prefer).

Composite is authentic too, enjoy the way your great CRT works!

[Bozo_Cyborg]

Composite rocks. You won’t be missing anything playing games that way, imo. If you want to try something different and have the chance to pick up a component or a-video set later, I say go for it but the games won’t magically get better if they’re a little sharper!

[harborline_765]

@Orbitmorning

because now I feel that the consensus is that using anything less than S-Video I wont be able to to get the best out of these systems and enjoy and appreciate the games.

Composite is still very much worthwhile depending on the system and game. For systems like AV Famicom, PC Engine, NTSC N64, and Super Famicom, the composite output is almost indistinguishable to S-Video, at least on my JVC PVM which has a comb filter.

But even for Saturn I found myself playing games like Soul Hackers, Baroque and Gran Chaser/Cyber Speedway with composite. Even though it’s softer than S-Video, you get the transparencies, plus the art direction of these games lends itself well to the softer output anyway.

[Minasu]

I use composite with an AV Famicom. It’s not hooked up at the moment, but here are some pictures I posted several years ago:

To me, the games couldn’t look better.

The internet is useful for acquiring information, but I wouldn’t worry too much about people’s opinions. It’s best to form your own.

[harborline_765]

So good! I still haven’t hooked up my AV Famicom to the Retrotink but there’s a very high bar to clear in image quality there.

Will post pics when I get round to it.

@Minasu

The internet is useful for acquiring information, but I wouldn’t worry too much about people’s opinions. It’s best to form your own.

This too. I would definitely advise people not to dismiss composite as is the general consensus and there’s no harm in trying it. If it’s not to your preference, that’s fine too! But yeah, definitely worth giving it a shot if you can.

[Peltz]

Any crt in decent condition will still be 100x better than a modern display in my opinion.

I’d rather have composite + crt than RGB + a scaler to a flatscreen.

I used rf and then composite for years before learning about anything else. I still exclusively use composite on my nes and my Famicom AV and have no desire to change.

I sought a PVM that did both 480p and 480i natively for so many years for perfect rendering of GCN games, and after finally getting a PVM 20l5, I realized that it wasn’t THAT much different from playing at 480i on an older PVM.

Yes, it’s clearly better. But am I really having “more fun” than before? Honestly it’s the same once you’re 3-4 minutes into the game, it all fades into the background. The hunt for the 20l5 was more important than the crt itself. And there are drawbacks to how it handles 480i compared to a softer crt with less tv lines of resolution.

We always think of one thing as “better” than another but usually it’s just different once you get to a certain level of satisfaction. There are almost always tradeoffs between different CRT displays even if one achieves higher highs than another.

[akumagorath]

Scalers are getting close. To the point that I don’t feel I’m missing out too drastically now when I play on my LCD. I have a D-Series profile on the Retrotink that is actually surprisingly very close to the real thing, when it’s not in motion anyway

But they’re expensive and require a lot of tinkering and know-how. Whereas any little composite only CRT, as long as it isn’t worn out or has glaring issues, just works superbly without fuss and without lag and great motion clarity

[Minasu]

@Peltz

We always think of one thing as “better” than another but usually it’s just different once you get to a certain level of satisfaction.

Well, you certainly do…

@Peltz

Any crt in decent condition will still be 100x better than a modern display in my opinion.

XD

[Peltz]

@Minasu

Well, you certainly do…

Peltz:

Well played. To clarify, I think the difference between CRT and Fixed Pixel (flatscreen) is 100x bigger than the difference between composite vs RGB on a CRT, or a consumer CRT vs a broadcast monitor.

For 15khz content (i.e. 240p or 480i), I find a flatscreen doesn’t convey the same experience. As others noted, the newest filters and display tech are getting closer, but sitting in front of a true convex-shaped CRT, with the warm phosphorescent glow will always stand apart in my mind.

[harborline_765]

After picking up a Retrotink 4K and pairing it with my OLED monitor, I’ve been really impressed with the progress that’s been made on this front. Particularly how HDR is used to counteract the darker image from strobing the screen to achieve greater motion clarity.

G-Sync pulsar monitors also come with a strobing feature (confusingly, not G-Sync Pulsar itself) that can work with anything piped through, which apparently gives perfect motion clarity at any input hz. I’ve yet to see it but people who have tried it have been very positive about it.

Like you mention though, the convex shape has its own qualities that are unlikely to be replicated, but I’ve been shocked at how almost every other dimension is now “good enough”.

[poptart]

Which OLED monitor do you own? Do you recommend it?

I got an OLED laptop recently and the screen is so nice (bright and amazing color) I find it hard to use my normal LCD monitor. The OLED ones I’ve been eyeing are pricey but probably going to spring for one around black friday deals.

[akumagorath]

I agree, they’re getting so close that I’ve started to use different mask types/CRT types to the ones that I own lol, just to get a different feeling

Here are some comparison shots:

[harborline_765]

I did something illogical and bought a Sony M10S last year. It’s a 480hz OLED with 1440p resolution at 27".

The stand is really nice, it’s just a small, black circle, very discreet and frees up a lot of space around it. It also has a great and smooth swivel functionality along the horizontal axis.

The 480hz though…was not worth it. I ended up using the Switch 2 the most on it, for starters, and while it’s great there you’re trading off peak brightness to get those hz, so HDR isn’t as good as it could be.

But I bought into this idea that I could use a PC to drive 480hz or strobing, or play less demanding games at 480fps. But it’s really not worth it, given the power demands, and it’s clear technologies like G-Sync Pulsar and ULMB2 are far superior solutions, enabling clear motion clarity at 60fps.

Panel uniformity also leaves something to be desired but isn’t bad enough that you’ll notice it on most content.

Lastly, the subpixel layout still means stuff isn’t as crisp as an LCD monitor with true RGB subpixels. This is much more noticeable when using a computer through it, as text just looks lower resolution. It’s not PenTile levels of bad, but there’s definitely some ringing around text which isn’t particularly desireable to look at.

I was thinking about selling it and getting either a 1440p G-Sync Pulsar monitor or a 4K 27" OLED instead, both of which would be an upgrade with the RetroTink 4K. there’s a BenQ 4K 27" OLED that released this year but the stand and UI is a bit of a dealbreaker.

Maybe we’ll see Sony upgrade the M9 (their 4K monitor, currently IPS) with OLED in future. The primary reason I went for Sony last year was really due to the beautiful stand, thin profile, and sensible user interface…