Your thoughts on the new generation of Nintendo 64 remakes

Video Games
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Now that a modern Ocarina of Time remake is very much a reality, I thought I’d follow up on Peltz’s thread concerning Star Fox’s modern remake.

It looks like N64 remakes are back, last taking place on the 3DS, and Nintendo has picked the same two games to start: Star Fox 64, and Ocarina of Time 3D.

Both games appear to emulate realism, which makes sense to me. That’s what Nintendo was all about on the N64, when you think about the likes of Super Mario 64 (the 3D renders!), 1080 Snowboarding, Wave Race 64, Pokemon Stadium, Pilotwings and of course Zelda (bottom of the well!) and Star Fox. These games used many assets from photo library CDs as part of their artwork and backgrounds, too.

So going for realism always made sense.

The question, however, is how faithful can these remakes really be at fully recreating the magic of the originals while respecting people’s memories of them. On 3DS, Star Fox 64 3D continued to aim for realism with its revamped textures and lighting, but the 240p resolution of the 3DS screen meant Nintendo was able to faithfully recreate much of the game’s atmosphere.

With modern, highly detailed graphics, much more is described of any specific scene, leaving our imagination with less space to provide our own interpretation on top. Where in the original games the artists were building a representation of the inside of a fish monster’s belly, the remake artists instead will be describing it to us in detail.

I noticed the Star Fox 64 remake has also removed the expertly choreographed ending of the original game in favor of something that looks and sounds, to my eyes, a lot more generic.

These are the sorts of changes that the old guard at Nintendo once put their foot down in order to preserve the magic of the original game and the memories players had playing them. I’m surprised someone didn’t do so with this new remake.

What are your thoughts? Are you worried for Ocarina of Time? Or are you looking forward to seeing a fresh take on a classic? Or would you rather Nintendo be putting resources into a new game entirely if they are to make changes? The topic of remakes is so complex…

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There are tonnes of little timing differences i noticed. It kinda made me wonder how they made it, I mean given that the 3DS one was based on the source (iirc that’s what they said in Iwata Asks) and it’s Nintendo so they probably still have both. Not to mention the decomp if they didn’t lol.

At times though, there’s some stuff that I thought might have been done ‘by eye’. Probably it’s just modified from source intentionally, but if they did by eye the whole game… well the level of accuracy would be pretty damn impressive.

Hard not to compare it to the Panzer Dragoon Remake as well, which was definitely by eye. I never thought it looked THAT bad, considering they had to create it from scratch and the original is so sparse, 95% of it has to be invented! But obviously it didn’t go down that well.

When i got to Sector X in the new Star Fox and it was unrecognizable in places, i had a brief thought of “Has this lost the atmosphere too?” … before just being blown away by how good it all looks, to the point where i just didn’t care how accurate it was, and that seems to be the case for most people. Obviously the lighting in Star Fox is far better than PDR as well but it makes you wonder where people draw the line.

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This, the only time I raised an eyebrow was with MacBeth as the original had this haze that made the air feel polluted and oppressive, and it’s too clear in the remake. Star Fox 64 3D had a good middle ground.

The new sound effects are also a bummer, as they were so iconic in the original game. Especially the menu sounds which have been replaced with something much more generic sounding, like they could have come out of any sci-fi themed game.

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The lack of visual hit flashes to see when a boss or spongey enemy gets damaged is a huge issue with this remake. Particularly with the boss on aquas and Andross’s true form.

Some things are certainly better - like the lasers not phasing through some enemies where they shouldn’t. Overall hit detection and handling seem flawless now.

And 60fps is also a game changer obviously.

I appreciate this remake as a novelty but I don’t really think this game is as charming as the original. I also don’t like how they turned Fox into a money focused mercenary rather than a pure hero type of guy he was (even if he was still a merc).

The scenes between the levels are cool at first, but unlike the original dialogue, just drag on a bit too long to rewatch during repeat playthroughs. They don’t really add enough to justify their length

Generally speaking though, the game looks great during gameplay even if a few of the visuals convey something completely different than the original games.

I think it would be great if OOT’s remake took way more liberties than this to distinguish itself from the original. I’m looking for a Metroid Zero-style reimagining than an eyeballed shot for shot remake like what we got here.

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It would be really interesting to see but at the same time it’s going to be like opening a can of worms! A game like that is so distinctly tied to people’s memories that even Koji Kondo (iirc) put his foot down when he caught wind of the soundtrack being re-arranged for 3DS!

So I think even small changes, like the menu sounds will be very controversial here. Plus OoT was a game that did a lot with a little (I believe the Japanese term for this is wabisabi). Scenes like Saria staring at Link on the bridge may look uncanny in high resolution, so it’ll certainly be very interesting to see how they reinterpret them. But I’m also very afraid haha.

In the case of Star Fox remake, I am baffled with some of the decisions made. For example, the way high scores are treated. In the original game and on 3DS, it saved records of the route you took through the galaxy to beat Andross. That’s gone for no good reason. Plus score attack mode from 3DS has been de-emphasised into an arbitrary challenge mode…why not have both?

In many ways the 3DS version took the best approach: you could choose between Nintendo 64 mode which aimed to faithfully recreate every aspect of the game, or Nintendo 3DS mode, which was rebalanced. High scores on both modes were kept separate. And only Nintendo 3DS mode let you continue or retry without penalties - on Nintendo 64 mode you still had to make it through the entire game with 3 starting ships, no continues.

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In my opinion, playing skill-based games on a Nintendo 64, with an original controller and a CRT, is an experience that can’t be improved upon. I’m talking about F-Zero X, Wave Race, 1080, Sin and Punishment, Mario Golf/Tennis and, yes, Star Fox, to name but a few. As you all know, this is down to the precision of the analogue stick and the response time of a CRT.

That said, I mostly play video games for an arcade-style challenge. If you value the cinematic qualities of Star Fox, then the latest remake is likely to interest you. I don’t care about that and Star Fox isn’t a favourite of mine anyway, even if I do rate it for what it is. If Nintendo were to outsource F-Zero X remaking it in a similar vein, I’m sure I wouldn’t like it. Fortunately, not enough people care about F-Zero so that’s never going to happen…

Ocarina of Time is another matter entirely. I can see how it would sing with modern technology. Again, this is not something I care about personally, but it makes sense. It’s an adventure and a story as much as it is a game.

I’m not against porting, remastering or remaking as a general rule. But in the context of the N64 and its unique properties, it’s an especially interesting discussion.

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Good point. This is why I advocate for more of a REmake or Metroid Zero Mission style take if they’re going to touch something as important to gaming history as OOT. The 3DS ports of OOT3D, MM3D, and SF64 3D were actually quite tasteful since “same game on the go with slight enhancements” has been a selling point since the GBA with all of its Super Nintendo ports.

I saw those 3DS releases as sort of the n64 equivalent.

But these Switch 2 versions are a different beast and should be analyzed as such. The standard is higher to me. Star Fox met the standard but only superficially as a weekend curiosity, fan service type thing.

OOT is a more somber, long form type of game. To hold my attention for an entire adventure campaign, it needs to be more than the same game with prettier graphics. It essentially needs to be a new game that pays homage to the original.

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If you think about Metroid Zero Mission remake, though, it is basically more Metroid Fusion, but with a Metroid 1 theme on top. The original Metroid has a lot more in common with Zelda 1 in terms of difficulty, structure, open-ness than any later title, and those qualities are lost in the remake.

To play devil’s advocate, such a remake in modern days may be analagous to making a Breath of the Wild style Zelda but with the story and general theme of Ocarina of Time…we must be careful what we wish for :wink:

Similarly, Resident Evil 2 remake basically remakes that game in the style of Resident Evil 4, making it a lot more homogenous. Worse still, Capcom still refuses to sell the original game in any capacity, making the remake a piece of historical revisionism if you think about it, in terms of its market positioning. At least with Metroid Zero Mission, Nintendo did include the original Metroid as an unlockable upon completing it. Plus they also kept making it available via NES Classics, Virtual Console, etc, rather than being ashamed of it.

If you were to ask me, I think the best remake ever made is Donkey Kong 94 on Game Boy. It plays faithful homage to the original in its tutorial before completely reimagining what the concept of Donkey Kong can be in a game that resembled no other title.

Most modern remakes just take established or trendy modern game design conventions, often from later series entries and force the remade game through them, whereas DK 94 was simultaneously respectful to its source material and breaking new ground with it.

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I fully expect that Ocarina of Time will be a Breath of the Wild-style adventure using that specific engine. How they interpret it through that lens I’m not sure except that I think it will be one contiguous open world.

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I hope they remake the Goemon games

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I got round to listening to this finally, pretty interesting analysis of the approach taken with the remake of Star Fox 64:

It’s clear that 3D is probably running the original code underneath while 2026 is a rebuild from observation, as he points out things like how

  • the underlying arcade-like structure has been removed, as continues are unlimited and there’s no penalty for dying
  • enemies spawn far into the distance, meaning they no longer ambush the player and become free targets
  • the homing shot is faster, smarter, and more powerful, reducing the role of the level design
  • As you’d expect, contrast and visibility have been compromised significantly as the move away from a small, 240p screen means it’s no longer non-negotiable to focus on these things

Some of his points are contrived, like he criticises 3D for letting players save and continue even though the game gives you a crown if you beat the game in one sitting, but overall pretty interesting analysis.

On the other hand, it doesn’t really give us an indication about how Ocarina of Time 2026 will turn out, as the compromises Star Fox is fundamentally a high score chasing arcade-style game. The qualities lost in Star Fox 2026 aren’t present in OoT.

Still, the points he articulates about why remakes were often better positioned in the past to retain the authenticity of the original works is a good one. Many of those points (circumstances by which a game is made, teams involved, target hardware) can be reapplied to faux-retro works in the modern age.

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I used to like the Mark’s videos, but since RE9, Pragmata and this one it’s just a circus to please the ego of his audience.

Yes Star Fox is less 1:1 than the 3DS version, but personally it’s globally an excellent port for a big modern OLED screen.

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I think he can make contrived points but even though I don’t agree with all of them he’s still interesting to listen to, provided he isn’t beating a dead horse which he can sometimes do.

The points he makes about Star Fox’s 2026 rendition are mostly valid when approached from the point of view of the game being an arcade-style high score chaser.

The remake may succeed in terms of providing a glossed up playthrough of the original game (though I would argue having passive watch cutscenes goes against the integrity of what the game was trying to pioneer with its gameplay cinematics) but there is a serious discussion to be made about the game’s long-term replay value and their connected fundamentals.

I think it’s a good video worth a watch rather than to be dismissed.

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The Zelda remake massively exceeded my expectations, I have to say. It must be developed internally at Nintendo given the characteristics of the graphics (it’s using FSR 1), and I’m glad the right choices have been made:

  • Environment sizes have been preserved which was my biggest concern. Instead they’ve gone to town on adding detail
  • The visual style, overall, is the right direction to take. OoT’s overworld always gave off a storybook vibe, and that’s recreated well here. I hope the dungeons have the same approach to realism as the original game.
  • The original SFX have been retained, like the iconic menu/dialogue advancing sounds
  • The new character designs are, by and large, very faithful to the originals, without invoking any uncanny valley feeling.

Things I have questions about:

  • Where is first person? that’s a huge part of the immersion and replacing it wholesale with manual right-stick camera controls would be a big loss.
  • similarly, the removal of fixed camera angles in Hyrule Castle Town, and presumably, other locations, not only makes that location feel smaller in the footage shown, but takes away from that dichotomy of action-less locations which had a fixed camera.
  • The new UI isn’t bad, but it’s also quite sterile. The skeuomorphic UI of the original game would really sing with modern technology applied to it…
  • BotW’s item switcher rears its ugly head again…

Also while the new graphics are phenomenal, it does remind us that more detail often equals worse readability. This is perhaps why they’ve changed an early game puzzle where originally you had to shoot the ladder with a slingshot. Now there’s an eye switch above said ladder which is more visible.

Still, I’m left very excited.

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I may buy it and run through it just to appreciate the craftsmanship of it as an homage to the original. But after my hype for the Star Fox vs the reality of playing it (not quite as fun as the n64 version for me) I think it is a disappointment they aren’t doing something different.

The two remakes in the Metroid series we got over the years were more in line with what I like to see, even if Samus Returns wasn’t my favorite game.

It’s more than a cheap cash grab, but somehow less than the novelty of playing ocarina of time on the go that 3DS gave us, despite clearly being more ambitious.

It’s a great intro to the traditional Zelda formula for a whole new generation of people that only know BotW/TotK so I’m glad it exists for them.

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I think with timeless games it’s okay for them to not need to reimagine them, though I do understand why there might be demand for wholly new content. It would have been cool to at least see the dropped N64 DD content make it in (assuming they had to drop content when they switched to cartridge), though I guess unused ideas would have made it into Majora’s Mask.

Agreed on Star Fox, I think 3D was a much better remake but what it’s trying to do is very different to OoT. The series has always straddled the line between approachability and arcade roots and it’s a shame the latter was not expanded upon well in the remake. I’m surprised they didn’t contract Platinum for it as they “get” the genre, but maybe they were tied up with Ninja Gaiden 4 at that time.

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I’m not so sure… but it’ll be interesting to find out. Unfortunately, we often have to wait until release.

I must say, the popularity of OoT in the West is fascinating. The high fantasy setting surely plays a part. But it seems there’s something about the story that resonates, especially in the US. Specifically, the theme of childhood… the idea that it is pure, even sacred, and somehow damaged or taken away in adulthood.

Incidentally, this very theme (or interpretation of a theme) makes OoT the perfect game to remake in order to capitalise on nostalgia. In addition, it’s ideal as a bridge to Nintendo’s newly established cinematic universe.

OoT has never done anything for me. Nor do Nintendo films. Just some observations…