Between low definition and HD, there was 480p!

An eBay spare parts search are getting a hit for this panel for the 20PFL4122. The 800:1 contrast matches the spec and the panel info states it’s an IPS according to the specs here:

http://www.panelook.com/LC201V02-SDB1_LG%20Display_20.1_LCM_overview_3997.html

There’s an S-IPS panel variant too, different brightness/contrast though.

That’s the exact same IPS panel that’s in my 20PF4121. Curious.

How much faith to put into the Discontinued and Mass Production date of 2006? Do they really have enough of these old panels to have been producing TVs using them for 15 years?

Also, I found the service manual for the 20PFL4122/79 and that shows this TN panel with 3ms response time and marginally worse viewing angle http://m.panelook.com/CLAA201VA07C_CPT_20.1_LCM_overview_2816.html but also discontinued and mass produced in 2006.

TN is annoying because it could perhaps mean it’s a crap shoot as to what panel you get? Maybe.

Interestingly, the European version 20PFL4122/10 has HDMI rather than DVI but has a response time of 25ms. These are old 2008-era items that are no longer produced, according to Philips, but can be picked up second hand quite easily in mainland Europe.

With Philips the number after the slash is called “stroke version” and means a regional variation. Examples (main source):

/00 (All Regions?)
/01
/05 UK & Ireland
/10 Europe (Whole)
/12 Continental Europe (excluding UK & Ireland, including Eastern Europe)
/31 (European country?)
/37 USA & Canada (NAFTA)
/38 Mexico
/51 Russia
/55 Latin America (LATAM)
/58 (European country?)
/60 (Ukraine?)
/61 Korea
/69 Singapore
/75 Australia
/77 Argentina
/78 Brazil
/79 New Zealand
/88
/93 China (APMEA?)
/94 India
/96 Taiwan (APMEA?)
/97
/98 Asia-Pacific (APAC)

So service manuals for the old (~2007) 20PFL4122/?? show panel LC201V02-SDB1

And service manuals for newer/current (~2019) 20PFL4122/79 show panel CLAA201VA07C

Which is encouraging to learn that the old models used IPS and the newer/current models use TN.

The eBay part would be for the older sets.

Panel suppliers

  • LPL (LG Philips LCD)
  • AUO (AU Optronics)
  • CMO (Chi Mei Optoelectronics)
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So I bought a 2007-dated 20PFL4122 from Germany for €25 (shipping another €25). It arrived today and will post my thoughts soon. I used eBay Kleinanzeigen (Classifieds) to buy it.

https://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/20PFL4122_10/flat-tv-with-crystal-clear-iii

@Voltz Just saw I missed your question, will address this in my writeup.

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Tonight I finally realised a years long dream of Pixel Perfect Wii.

So happy I could cry. You know the feeling!

It’s a Frankenstein combination of Wii > HDMI > VGA but it works beautifully. Still testing lag but first test was ~20ms which is fine for me.

Will write more and photos soon.

A little bit of Sega Dreamcast action through the Sega Dreamcast - HKT-8100 connected to the ViewSonic G225f.

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Here we go.

I have two similar Philips, each of which cost me £20 (plus delivery). One from Gumtree UK and one imported from Germany’s equivalent, eBay Kleinanzeigen.

If you’re using standard VGA there’s not much between them. They differ in the details.

I’m currently using the 4122, as I have two devices connected - one by VGA and one by HDMI. But waiting on a VGA switch box, adapters, extra cables and then I will use the 4121.

20PF4121
https://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/20PF4121_05/4000-series-20-inch-lcd
From UK

Pros

  • IPS 640x480
  • 240p support
  • better sound separation and quality
  • DVI-I (accepts VGA and Component over VGA, but see below)
  • RGB SCART, S-Video, Composite
  • remembers last input after standby

Cons

  • excessive overscan on any signal input other than pure VGA (so Component over VGA via DVI is affected)
  • sluggish OSD/menu
  • no indication of input signal type (in non-VGA modes)

20PFL4122
https://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/20PFL4122_10/flat-tv-with-crystal-clear-iii
From Germany

Pros

  • IPS 640x480
  • VGA (but not Component over VGA)
  • HDMI, Component (but see below)
  • RGB SCART, S-Video, Composite
  • very good OSD/menu
  • displays input signal type (in non-VGA modes)

Cons

  • no 240p support
  • worse sound separation and quality
  • excessive image processing (“Crystal Clear III”) on any signal input other than pure VGA
  • does not remember PC input after standby

@Voltz
20PFL4122 no scaling on any inputs, but excessive image processing means VGA is the only option for good image.
20PF4121 scaling and overscan on all inputs except VGA. Amount differs by input source, for example PS2 is less of an issue.

For details on getting 1:1 pixel in VGA mode of Wii, there’s a little trick involved, see Using HDMI to VGA adapters on modern consoles - #14 by matt

Hopefully this answers your question?

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I finally got around to updating JunkerHQ’s wiki with my PSP optimal timings data. I also calculated some alternative settings which leaves a bit more of the letterbox, but produces a perfect 720p picture, which my TV upscales much better than the 607x344 settings that I’d mentioned earlier, and is only a 5 pixel compromise on the aspect ratio. Credit to poptart, of course, for deducing the 607x344 settings and for putting me on this path to PSP+OSSC optimality :slight_smile:.

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=Playstation_Portable#OSSC_Specific_settings

Unfortunately, it looks like the PSP’s video out is just noisy. I hooked it up to an oscilloscope, and noticed quite a bit of clock jitter, which does appear in the picture, as does some ringing. Also, my TV doesn’t do a perfect job upscaling 720p content, so some blurriness still remains. If someone makes an OSSC-like linedoubler with HDMI in and 4k support, it would likely work well in this pipeline. I’ve set “Reverse LPF” to 3, which is essentially just a sharpening filter, which helps with these issues somewhat.

I’m relatively confident that the OSSC is dialed in perfectly at this point, and the remaining imperfections are with my TV and with the PSP itself, but folks do please check my work.

Here’s the final product:


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Because I don’t know when to quit, and because I saw another 480p LCD fan over on Reddit, I bought another 20" 640x480 TV. :eyes:

It’s a Sharp LC-20S5E and it’s lovely TV with excellent sound. I bought a white version. :white_heart:

BUT it has a strange (BGR?) sub-pixel alignment AND I can’t get it to display any video from Dreamcast over VGA, or PS2/Wii using Component over VGA, or Wii using HDMI to VGA. However, it does display my PC over HDMI to VGA.

Will give it some more time but right now it feels like a lemon. :lemon:

Thanks for this. I’ll give it a whirl.

Matt’s experiments with his new monitors/TVs gave me an hypothesis to test lately: maybe the Wii U GamePad might also be a good way of receiving good image quality from Wii games:

  • It’s got a 480p display - potentially pixel perfect for some games

  • The Wii U can be set to 480p, 4:3 output, which translates to Wii Mode

  • Wii U streaming quality is very generous for a 480p feed - and the Wii U outputs the correct aspect ratio for streaming with no overscan problems.

It’s not bad! The results vary by game, but it’s pretty good with Opoona, a game that only supports 4:3 and has a cel shaded visual style with bold angular, defined outlines:



It was a very crisp image even with the Wii U GamePad right in my face (I liked playing it like a slob lying down, resting the GamePad on my chest), only in a couple of locations in the entire game - those heavy on ‘noisy’ colours - could I tell I was streaming a game from the Wii U instead of viewing it via HDMI.

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modified Wii Nintendont boot.dol with 480p fix applied, so all GameCube games launched through Nintendont will be fixed.

In my experience, on a native 640x480 VGA LCD, it’s as if a very pale texture is removed from the image.

https://github.com/FIX94/Nintendont/issues/665#issuecomment-620566570

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I’ve been playing Xanadu Next recently on PC, one of Falcom’s last PC games. Despite its release in the mid 2000s, it’s interesting how its user interface only appears crisp at 640 x 480, including the art.

Would love to play the game on an old monitor, I bet it looks great.


Some closeup of guilty gear X on my philips 20pf4121

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Damn that looks great

As good as the modern Guilty Gear games look I miss the old style.

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A Lot of psx games would have benefitted from higher internal res, bilinear filtering, and increased coordinate precision. And thanks to beetle-psx-hw that’s exactly what we can achieve. A sort of psx 1.5 . One of my favourite racing games “ridge racer type 4” lends itself particularly well to this situation. 640x480 internal resolution, tv-out-tweaks shader does some image processing magic. Set the signal and luma res to 320 for a slightly soft image as it would look through 15khz output, or as I like to do turn it to 480 for some increased detail. Scanline overlay set to 30% completes my personal preference. All displayed once again on my 480p Philips edtv. It’s hard to capture how good this actually looks in real life. If anyone has some tips about taking better photos of lcd’s, please let me know.

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I’m gonna try this game and that setup!

What a great shot. I love the art direction in Type-4, each track is a mood.


Some GameCube/Wii shots running at native res. Was digging through my phone for some pics of close-ups of the slotmask effect, figured I might as well post some full shots here. The 2d artwork really shines on these.

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Yesterday the N64 paraLLEi render plugin gained support for higher internal resolutions. It’s a software implementation of the entire N64 RDP running on the GPU through a vulkan compute implementation.

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