PS1 Appreciation/Collectors Thread of Ugly-Ass Polygons


#142

No worries.


#143

Been playing Chrono Cross, slowly but surely. Just got to Viper Manor with my new French-dude character and fought a funny boss named Ketchup who screams “TOMATOOO” when happy and “SAUCCEEEEE” when angry.

You can’t make this stuff up. What a fun game!


#144

Well I’m playing Chrono Cross on PS2 slim and I definitely notice some dithering issues during battle scenes.

It’s one of those things I can’t unsee now that it’s been pointed out on these boards. Eh… it’s not enough to make me search for reliable PS1 hardware though. I just wish it weren’t there. I imagine if I were playing on a less sharp CRT and/or with a lossy signal, it wouldn’t be visible.

Kind of crazy that PS1 games don’t have a standard look and they change so much depending on the hardware. Even PS3 can’t seem to get it right from a visual perspective. It’s all too soft and scaled so oddly.


#145

Dithering is identical between all PS1 hardware revisions. It isn’t an issue but an optional function of the GPU, if you see it then it’s because the developer chose for it to be there. I think its fair to consider the PS1 as being intended to be used with composite cables considering how extensively dithering is used.


#146

There is color banding on some very early models. I.e. lack of dithering. It’s a bug.


Plus, @Peltz is using a PS2 which I’ve seen at times can change the dithering a bit for better or worse.

#147

Fair enough, you are quite right but there is something that I still don’t understand. Very early models have that colour banding issue due to a bit depth bug. But how does that affect the dithering as we know it is an entirely separate function of the GPU? There is absolutely nothing out there that explains why that is the case, the bit depth shouldn’t actually matter.

edit:

"Raw gouraud shaded polygons (without texture) are dithered smoothly on all GPUs.

Textured gouraud shaded polygons are dithered too, but, as AmiDog mentioned, the texture blending on old GPU drops the lower 3bit of the gouraud shaded color, so each 8 shading levels are forcefully getting the same dithering applied, and then the next higher 8 shading levels are abruptly getting higher brightness."

http://www.psxdev.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1035


#148

Perhaps some kind of flag “If bit depth equals X, use filter Y”???

It can be an intended automatic function while dithering is not inherent to low bit depth.

I stress though, I’m no computer scientist.


#149

the actual dithering logic is the same, but “gouraud shading + texture blending” is dropping the lower 3bit of the gouraud shading level, so each 8 intensities are crippled to get the SAME dithering pattern. On the other hand, dithering for raw gouraud shading (without texture) works okay.”

http://www.psxdev.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=475

so there we have it, the dithering is actually exactly the same but the bit depth bug means that you can’t see it. so technically I was right, the dithering is the same across all models lol!


#150

You can disable the dithering using cheat codes.

I can help you find/generate the cheat code if you have the means to use it?


#151

The ps2 dithering of ps1 games?


#152

noooooooo! remove the dithering and you expose the colour banding that it was designed to hide. sometimes it looks ok, but most of the time it looks absolutely awful, just check metal gear solid or motor toon gp for example to see how well the dithering works in creating shaded polygons.

or check the screenshots in the below post with 2d content, see how much detail and texture is added because of the dithering?

https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1303742&sid=10c4491e6f7052c4403fe16b0695bb26#p1303742

personally I love the dithering and wouldn’t be without, it’s part of the hardware’s charm alongside the wobbly textures and polygons, gives the console a really unique visual aesthetic.


#153

Couldn’t agree more. Games look better with that dither than with it removed through any method.

I love this comparison between the original look and “improved” look in silent hill w/ dither gone and running at a crazy high rez:


#154

I interpret that link as saying that while the dither logic is the same, the ammount of of banding is increased on the shading. Thus, the amount of dithering to the amount of banding is insufficient to hide it?

So I guess I’m also still right? Thre is a technical “lack of dithering” relative to the lack of bits. :stuck_out_tongue:


#155

I find it to be an eyesore. Id rather remove it while increase bit depth to counter the banding. Better yet, I wish Team Silent could remake SH1. SH1 has more issues than color gradients. Weird character models, and shoddy perspective/proportion issues in some background, and such. I love that game to death but I hate noticing it’s technical problems.


#156

I wouldn’t remove it by default, but for some games the dithering definitely gets in the way.

I’ve been playing Kero Kero King (whack a frog golf) which features cartoon graphics, mostly solid colours, and it looks a lot better - more cartoon like - without the dithering.

There’s also the PS1 Rage Racer vertical line issue - caused by the different dithering pattern used by PS2 - which can be removed by disabling dithering. Discussed elsewhere on here.

It’s also possible to selectively disable dithering for specific elements/objects/layers, depending on how the game applies dithering.

Though I definitely judge it by game. Some games look great with dithering.

@dubc yes, I’m using a PS2 Slim to play PS1 games with cheat codes to do this, but the process is not specific to PS2. If you can run a PS1 game with cheat codes (hardware, cheat cartridge, cheat disc, emulator) you’re good to go.


#158

That isn’t a fault of dithering but a consequence of using too sharp an output so the colours are not blending as intended, gotta use composite!


#159

Anyone know a online seller besides eBay that sells those large PS1 PAL and JP cases?

I have several JP games that the seller sold me in regular jewel cases and the cover and the insert just don’t fit. It doesn’t need the PlayStation branding.


#160

So the flop that is the PS1 Classic has got me to back into PS1 game collecting. How is the scene today? Expensive AF?


#161

Well, it’s not getting any cheaper. There are only a handful of titles left on my wishlist and all of them are more expensive than when I first started tracking them. SOTN in particular spiked quite a bit much to my dismay. I should really just jump on everything and be done with it.


#162

SoTN? Really? That game has been everywhere lol. I have a disc copy as well, as well as PSN.