Retro AV |OT| RGB, CRTs, Upscalers, and more


#221

This is one of the big faults of the OSSC for me. I have too many systems that have no RGB mod, because there just isn’t one. Whose best video output as of right now are Composite or S-Video mods. I do wish it supported at least composite and S-Video.


#222

Cleaning out my text messages. This one still stings.


#223

Here’s a little ProTip for the scanline crowd. Every couple of weeks I change my presets that use scanlines from ‘Top’ to 'Bottom placement, or vice versa. I do this to even out the wear on my OLED. If you have an OLED or Plasma, you may want to do the same.

Likewise, on the Analogue NT Mini, I periodically shift the position of the active image around. Up and down slightly to shift the scanline wear, and left and right to shift the position of the 4:3 (or smaller, depending on the core) image.

I’m hoping a future OSSC update lets me shift the active image left and right.


#224

Good tips! I’m hoping a future update let’s us change the Thickness.


#225

Also Gamma control is badly needed on the NT Mini; hopefully it makes it over from the Super NT.


#226

Are there any hurdles to implementing actual CRT filters in a FPGA console core? The Retroarch filters are in another league compared to the ones in Kevtris’ work, simulating everything from gamma compensation, scanline thickness, blur, color bleed, phosphor glow, visible RGB dots, mask/grille phosphor arrangement and television lines! I’ve always said these filters don’t quite reach the heights of a real CRT but they’re improved in 4K and help complete the picture tremendously.

Even Marshall’s Ultra HDMI N64 mod has better 1080p scanlines (both simple and hybrid scanline modes) which baffles me.

Oh and I almost forget the Apple II core in the MiST has nice filters too. Leads me to think Kevtris just doesn’t care for this aspect of retro gaming, which is fine but still disappointing.


#227

Honestly, Kevtris isn’t super interested in scanline (raster) simulation or even CRT as he personally prefers chunky pixel on a flat panel. Which is a little regrettable. He doesn’t fully ‘get’ scanlines as the NT Mini implementation reveals. Fortunately it looks like things are getting a bit better with the Super NT, but I agree there’s a whole lot more potential.

My personal interest in pure triad simulation has waned a bit as it would stress OLED panels to have certain pixels always pushing red, certain pixels always pushing green, etc. But there’s a lot that can be done to give a more CRT-like image without simulating pixel triads.

And of course some people use LCDs.


#228

It’s exciting when retro games come up as a topic on the Giant Bombcast but then I’m immediately bummed when they shit all over fake scanlines and filters.

Everyone in the scene seems to be split on the topic. Some feel glow, scanlines etc are a result of having to deal with inferior display technology and we should be happy to have clean pixels now while others feel it adds to the experience.

Raw pixels do look really good on my ks8000 but I still prefer some scanlines thrown on top.


#229

Personally, I find scanlines aren’t as important to me as they used to be. Rather, it’s more important for me to see games in their native resolution.

I like to see 240p games on a genuine native CRT in all their low res glory - whether there are scanlines visible or not. For me, the sprites look bigger and more beautiful when not upscaled or too sharp.


#230

What do I need to play PSP games on native hardware in the best possible quality on my PVM 20L5?


#231

PSP Go, cradle for PSP Go, component cables for PSP Go, a PSP 1000/2000/3000 AC adapter, a DualShock 3, and a PS3 to pair the DualShock 3 to the PSP with (along with USB cables for both to connect to the PS3).

Even when you have all that the aspect ratio coming out of the system at 480p is wrong as it outputs pixels at 10:11 PAR rather than 1:1. I’ve corrected this using the my TV’s scaling functions but the OSSC is capable as well. For your 20L5, is there a way to slightly stretch the image horizontally that isn’t annoying to reverse for normal content? Ideally you would also zoom in as well.


#232

If you keep pixel shift on and use the refresher every now and then you don’t need to do this.


#233

Nah… you’d have to manually mess with the service menu every time, which sounds terrible.

Could someone post a comparison of the 1:1 vs 10:11 aspect ratios? To be honest, a slightly off aspect ratio isn’t a deal killer for me on handheld games considering I play Gameboy games in my Super Gameboy and have learned to deal with it.

I hear that PSP games could also be played via an interlaced signal… which is closer to native? interlaced or 480p?

Bear in mind, I’ve never seen PSP games on a PSP screen before. I’ve only played them on a Vita, which isn’t terrible… But I’ll always prefer a TV-out solution wherever possible.


#235

I found some not very good photos here: http://radewagon.blogspot.ca/2011/12/playstation-3d-display-in-depth-review.html

On an HDTV set to 4:3 mode, it would look like this (too skinny w/ 10:11 PAR):

When stretched to 16:9 it would look like this (too fat w/ PAR 40:33):

Assuming your PVM displays 480p at full screen it would look more like the top one…

I haven’t tried it but I bet interlaced would just be a worse version of that.


#236

Yep, it could actually do either the top or bottom. Hmm…

Maybe the best course of action would instead to invest in a PSTV? Does it output in 480p? Or does it always scale to at least 720p?

And if so, how well does it scale?

Believe it or not, I could actually live with the top image. I think there are also some sorts of extron devices that will allow me to correct the aspect ratio if I’m not mistaken. But I need to investigate.


#237

PSTV does 480p, 720p, and 1080i. PSP is always output at full frame. I don’t think it looks especially good at 480p but at 720p and even 1080i it looks pretty good.

PSTV is also HDMI only. I guess if you’re deadset on using the 20L5 you could convert that to analog and then use 1080i?

I haven’t heard of major compatibility issues on Vita/PSTV but I went for a PSP Go setup in spite of the PSTV’s existence (and now having one) because I figured the Go would be proper full compatibility. It is a bit of a pain to deal with. It’s also nice to use like a Nintendo Switch since you can just pull it out and play portable.


#238

Although we haven’t talked about it much in general, PVM 20L5 is capable of receiving a digital input: SDI.

I would like to try an HDMI to SDI converter sometime to see what that is like in general. It could make for a much cleaner connection than component for times that I want to play Wii U, Xbox 360 and PS3 on my PVM. It will cut down on the cables in my setup too.

Right now, I have separate component cables connected to each of these systems for analogue output. It works and looks great for those rare occasions where I want to play Splatoon or Demon Souls with zero input lag. But I’d like to have my cake and eat it too with a truly lossless signal depending on how good and/or lag free those converters are. And it would also help with PSTV too. Heck, it could even allow me to play Switch and PS4 on my PVM if I set them to 720p or 1080i, which may be nice for certain situations where I want to be as lag-free as possible.

Sure, it’s taking things to the extreme - not every system needs to be compatible with every display in perfect image quality. But sometimes, it’s about the “because I can” line of thinking that makes me want to try it.


#239

The giant sharp pixel look makes me feel like my eyes are going to bleed for 2D content from 8 to 32 bit.

It causes the art to look nothing like what the original pixel artists saw when designing the assets on CRTs.

Scan line filters get us closer to that look. I’ll remain a huge advocate of that. I think it’s deserving of major effort in the years to come as there is room for a lot of improvement.


#240

I agree. There are good filters and bad filters.

But unfiltered completely is just ugly in my opinion.

The left images, for example, make the graphics look “naked” and wrong to my eyes:

Like in the above comparison, the left image makes it look like Mario has an erection between his legs. The right image makes the pixelated “stair stepping” of the sprite look normal. More importantly, the mushroom looks to have more smooth, curved surfaces instead of a blocky edges.

(click to expand)


#241

Just put a payment through for a 20L5 (currently using a 14M2U… which I love)

The seller was only a province over so should be here in no time! Doesn’t have far to go so fingers crossed everything ships safely.

I’m excited to finally have a 19" in my possession. For some reason I have my eye on one of the white MD (medical) L5’s now…Just to have a rounded out collection of PVMs.

this really is a rabbit hole I tell ya’.