Retro AV |OT| RGB, CRTs, Upscalers, and more


#1005

To be honest the lag on the Framemeister is a mute point. It’s so low no human can notice.


#1006

The FM is a low lag device. Especially for what it can do. I doubt there’s more lag reduction to gain from a frame buffered processor. It’s better to reduce lag with a low lag monitor if that’s the concern.

IDK how people give it a bad rap for lag when it’s specifically designed for low lag video processing with gaming in mind.


#1007

I normally play in 720P and so ive kinda forgotten, but weren’t scanlines kind of messed up in 1080p before? Whereas they look pretty fine now


#1008

I can understand competitive fighting gamers or speedrunners having a problem with the amount of lag the FM introduces but I’m neither of those and it doesn’t affect me at all.


#1009

I hear ya.

I’ve been using equipment over the years that produce at least 1-2 ms of lag and I never even picked up on it. I press a button and I still get the same “pop” from Mario jumping on the button input. The real issue is still on what display you use and any bad set will add a substantial delay in addition.


#1010

It didn’t have a “bad rep” (it really still doesn’t) until OSSC came along.

It’s just that the extra frame and one half of lag adds to the potential +20 frames of your typical gaming quality HDTV. And hardcore fighting game players are obsessed with every frame.


#1011

Man, I’m just not quite feeling these photos. Your OSSC pictures look “correct” to my eyes. Is this the same HDTV?

The graphics here with the FM filters look a little too sharp/pixelated and it feels like the filters aren’t rounding out the sprites quite as effectively.

Your OSSC shots looks perfect in comparison.


#1012

It’s not so much that we are obsessed with frames it’s more that we need them to compete in the older fighting games.

You can correct for alot of input lag with “feel” when it comes to predictable motions, like doing an offensive combo, or timing a jump in Mario but it becomes very hard to be react on the defensive.

Say you’re playing 3rd strike and you’re stuck in the corner being pressured, you’re low on life and your going to die from chip. Your only option is to parry one of the offensive moves on the EXACT required frame. If you miss this you’ll get hit and you will die.

Now you’ve got 1.5 frames from the FM
Another 1-2 frames from your average TV
a fraction of a frame from the original hardware depending on polling

So you now have to predict the move that your opponent is going to do and then you need to input the parry before you even seen the move.

Good luck making that Parry. It’s not happening.

Input delay is why I play on original hardware on CRTs. If all I played were RPGs I would have sold the CRTs years ago.


#1013

If input lag is too important for competing in older fighting games, I doubt you guys would be playing on an HDTV. Some people may be playing using FM but on a television with significantly lower input lag than others with an OSSC.


#1014

Everyone is fine using sub 1 frame displays for tournaments and it’s been decided that the ossc is the best transcoder as it’s lag is only “2-3 scanlines”

I haven’t seen the framemeister as something worth considering or other scalers, but frame inputs do matter in this regard. For most casual gaming you don’t need to worry about it as you’re not going to pick up on the lag anyway.


#1015

So all the 5x Firebrand X profiles I had don’t really work. I think I’m going to have to roll back the Firmware.

That’s said, those scanline options don’t look that great.

I really, really like the OSSC. I wish Firebrand would work more on image profiles instead of his Genesis stuff but who am I to complain. It’s the main reason I haven’t backed him on Patreon. I honestly can’t tell the difference half the time he uploads something.

If your TV plays nice with the OSSC it’s really the best bet short of RGB CRTs.


#1016

Right. No one is playing games competitivly on a TV but once you become aware of how good games feel with no input delay it’s hard to go back. Games like platformers and shmups really shine without input delay.


#1017

But don’t they already have input lag because you’re playing in an LCD/OLED?


#1018

Yeah modern TV’s already have input delay and the majority of them are downright unplayable for me before you add in an extra 1.5 frames from the frameister. My TV is 19ms of delay which is just over 1 frame and to me that’s playable but if you went ahead and doubled that with a frameister I couldn’t handle it.

That’s why I keep my crts around.


#1019

don’t forget input lag from the game itself, which is the case of anything arcade related is generally higher than the norm.

eg as you were mentioning 3rd strike.


#1020

I did mention that but you’re right. It’s why I’d much rather play on original hardware then a modern " collection"


#1021

Yep, in the past they were awful in 1080p but now they look fine.


#1022

I’ve never taken any OSSC images. I don’t have one. All pictures I’ve taken are from a Framemeister.


#1023

depends, ports can be less laggy but being emulation based really hasn’t helped many recent efforts.

looking at those shots that yakumo posted and the new vertical scanline option is really odd, it’s just a bunch of dots instead of actually blanking out the entire line.


#1024

Just to clarify, in order for 240p on a CRT monitor to work, it has to support 15KHz right?