Retro AV |OT| RGB, CRTs, Upscalers, and more


#1025

My impression of the new FM update was not good. I was thinking about rolling back my Firmware and it looks like FBX agrees.

https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63951

TLDR the update breaks 5x scanlines and does a whole lot more wrong. Roll back your update or better yet, put it away and get an ossc. :wink:


#1026

Honest question, and i’m putting myself out there with this but. Who actually understands what fbx is saying in that post? I understand 5x and if that’s broken that sucks but i feel like i need a degree in tv technology to understand what he’s on about.

Like Yakumo, i don’t use his profiles. I tried them (mostly for the F-Zero GX widescreen one) but to my eye there was no substantial difference with the standard presets. I don’t like anything cropped out so 5x doesnt matter to me. I just want to play my games with mimimal hassle so i just use my own settings per input. His colors also seemed off, which i can only assume is because he calibrated to his own set?

This kind of post does more damage than good imo. Making it seem like it’s way harder to get an outstanding picture from the Framemeister than it is (ie plugging it in and changing nothing). And no doubt more fuel for the army of OSSC converts to rant about when like me they probably don’t know what he’s talking about or never used both anyway.

Sorry if this comes across jerkish, but i like this community more than most cause there’s a real focus on playing and enjoying our games and not having rage fits!


#1027

He does custom profiles for the OSSC as well that go into all the smaller settings. Guy is passionate about what he really enjoys and it is a lot of help for people that are the same kind of way.


#1028

Kind of a loaded question.

Do you meant crt monitor as in a computer or VGA monitor ?

Those can support 240p but only on hardware that let’s you adjust the frequency, like a PC, Rpie etc.

I think there’s people that obssess far too much over minute details but I’m glad there’s people who do it. Guys like FBX cater to the hardcore crowd that care about every pixel. I don’t think his post is damaging because he’s not catering to the casual crowd anyway.

I don’t have a frameister but his profiles on the OSSC are the real deal. I don’t want to sit there and measure every little change but I do want to get the best reasonable picture out of my equipment. I’m glad he’s obsessed over this stuff so I can just load his premade profile and know I’m getting a great picture.


#1029

If I understand it too, 5x is only broken if you use scanlines, if you don’t everything is fine, I think.

But I agree with you about the overall post. There’s no attempt to even try and explain things in laymen terms.

I will say the extreme fanboyism in a lot of stuff is disappointing. FM, or OSSC, both can get you a fantastic picture, they both have their pros and cons, use what ever works best for you.


#1030

I kinda do and only because of the OSSC. Basically, he has a tutorial on YouTube how to dial in the ossc for your system. Long story short, because if this I learned about how important sample rate is to make sure the ossc looks great. I’m obsessive about the picture and to a degree most of us are because we spent the money to get a FM or OSSc (or both).

5x profiles are great because most of those few pixels were assumed to be overscan. With the ossc and a 4K display it’s possible to do 5x and not have anything cropped out too (FM max resolution is 1080p where ossc can output 1980*1200).

FM is expensive and I know people will be defensive about it because they don’t want to feel they wasted their money or something. I have a few edge cases where I like to use it but for everything it’s ossc. If you are happy with the FM, awesome. But it has some very bad limitations and IMO the latest update does not make it better and I plan on rolling it back to take advantage of those profiles when I do use it.


#1031

My mistake.

I think you recently upgraded to a 4K set right? I do really love your previous FM pictures on that set then. Didn’t realize they weren’t OSSC.

Edit, just reading the other posts I missed now. I never came across any fanboyism between OSSC and Framemeister. Most prefer the OSSC but many, myself included, only have a framemeister because that was the best solution for a few years and it still gets the job done well if you know how to use it.


#1032

You know sometimes the TV makes all the difference. My screen shots from my old 1080p Samsung look almost CRT like with the OSSC and FM but when I connect it to my Sony 4K it doesn’t look the same. It’s probably due to the double scaling the 4K set have to do.

Unfortunately the audio delay between that Samsung TV’s speakers and the speakers connected to my pvm is noticable. It’s worse if I put the scaler in 720p.

On my 4K there is less audio delay and even less in 720p. But the picture quality is not nearly as good. I wish the OSSC worked with my PC Monitor (great PQ and low delay and great RGB color space).


#1033

No doubt. I am not thrilled with the scaling on my Sony HDTV at all. But I bought it when these things were still not documented well. The dark ages between the death of Plasma screens and prior to the time that OLED screens were viable for a consumer price sort of forced me to make the best of a bad situation.

Those 2-3 years were the worst time to have an HDTV crap out on you. I’m hoping to upgrade this year or next to an OLED.


#1034

Real talk. I bought a 1080p sharp aquos around the time the PS3 launched and lucked out that it was a great tv with great input delay. Nothing made me interested in upgrading my TV untill the qled/OLED stuff started coming out.

I don’t know what I would have bought in the 12 years between that.


#1035

I have two from that era. Even worse is pre 2019 sets. Because now we are going to have yet one more thing (VRR) to worry about. I’m hoping that VRR isn’t going to cost ossc compatibility like it did with my G-Sync PC monitor.

Edit: real talk. I’m actually considering getting two TV’s if that is the case. One that’s good for HDR and mondern stuff and one that will play nice with retro. I really don’t like to play RPGs and games like Zelda on a 19" pvm for long stretches.


#1036

Or be like me and have a Framemeister and two OSSCs :stuck_out_tongue:


#1037

I’m in the both club. I bet a lot of us are


#1038

You and I are in the owners club of Sony TVs that don’t play nice with the ossc.


#1039

I like that you replied to yourself with that comment lol


#1040


#1041

#1 rule for TVs these days

Buy Korean


#1042

Nah, buy Toshiba, Japanese model not the crap they sell in the West. Toshiba in Japan is quite expensive due to the components used. They even promote them as gaming TVs in some stores due to the input latency being low.
My old HD TV was a Toshiba as is my new 4K screen. I have a Sharp Aqos in the living room but in all honesty I don’t rate it much. The image isn’t as vibrant, it’s slow to navigate and does have very delayed channel syncing. Playing games that switch resolution on that screen are a nightmare. My old Toshiba HD TV was bad but not as bad as the sharp. The 4K set is pretty quick to be honest.


#1043

I think the reason why TVs are so expensive in Japan is scale of the North American market and the fact that all these TVs collect data on their customers. Either way, sounds like you are happy and I’m less so with mine. I knew mine was a stopgap anyway.


#1044

Things must be different in Japan because I can’t even think of the last time I saw or even heard about Toshiba.

Sharp has gone down the toilet over the years. There’s even tons of articles on it.

Samsung and LG are definitely the heavy hitters in the market over here in NA