Retro AV |OT| RGB, CRTs, Upscalers, and more


#1045

Actually, prices of TVs here are the same as they have always been because they use high quality materials and components. The Korean brands are often cheaper. This caused a lot of issues for Japanese brands in the West. They couldn’t compete with the cheaper offerings from Korea. This lead to them using cheaper and therfore worse components for TVs sold in the West, especially the US. Of course this also impacted the quality. Toshiba TVs sold in the West these days aren’t even sold here as they’re cheap Chinese sets using the Toshiba name.
It really is a shame but that’s what happens when you have strong competitors selling cheaper even if the product may not last that long.

So why have Korean products not taken off in Japan? Simply because people here don’t trust the build quality and know that Japanese brands are made to a high level (or at least the domestic products are). Same with cars. You’ll be hard pressed to find a Kia or Hyundai in Japan. You’ve got a much higher chance of seeing an American muscle car or an Italian super car.


#1046

Yeah, sharp just lost the plot. The failed to adapt in time.


#1047

Super funny because in the US, Japanese brands like Honda and Toyota don’t have the same quality they used to have. They aren’t much better than domestic brands and Hyundai are actually building better and longer lasting cars. Made in Japan (or engineered by a Japanese firm) doesn’t have that same stamp of approval it had 20 years ago. I don’t think Sony even owns it’s own LCD mfg. Also, Sony’s OLED pannels are made by LG. I heard a few years back that there are only a few companies that actually make LCDs anymore and LG & Samsung are two of those companies.

Edit: I distinctly recall someone on the news talking about why TVs have gotten so cheap here and it’s because of the advertisement dollars built into the apps and features bundled with the TV’s. Also, the tarriff imposed on Chinese and Korean goods is supposed to be high and thats a main reason. Perception isn’t always reality.


#1048

That’s it you see. The Koreans are making stuff at a price the Japanese can not compete with. So all overseas items are built to a lower cost than domestic brands. It’s really sad but I guess it was the same after world war 2 when Japanese brands were cheaper and better than their Western counterparts.


#1049

What can you do? I was better 20 years ago too. :wink:

I’m very fond of Japanese brands. All my cars and trucks have bee Honda and Toyota. I had a few European in between vehicles. Samsung TVs have always been rock solid and I’ve only owned Toshiba, Sony and Sammy TV’s.


#1050

My very first CD player was a Samsung. This was back in 1990 before Samsung was even a known brand and LG was still Gold Star before they merged. (man, gold star products were shit). That 1990s Samsung player still works now. My brother uses it in the garage.


#1051

My parents had a rear projection set by Mitsubishi of all companies. And it was awesome. It did 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i impeccably well too. Never gamed on it though.

I was sad when it died.


#1052

I have 2 4K Toshiba’s here in Japan as well. A 43Z700X and the next size up and revision 49BZ710X. After i got the first, there was no doubt I should get another. The interface is extremely quick (although i wish it was in English :blush:. It’s not Android or anything like that. My inlaws got a Sony 8000E (800 elsewhere). That one’s price is a level below the Toshiba’s i’ve got, but yeah it’s a lot slower with Android. I haven’t had them side by side or anything but i’d say the picture is comparable.

Framemeister has no issues with it. Switching resolution games are relatively quick too. Toshiba is about the only manufacturer here that makes any attempt to publicize the Game mode, although as you can imagine, their own figures are “impressive”. Based on my own perception and even with the added lag of FM, i think it’s above average. I don’t have issues in any game type (on an old LCD i used to struggle getting the boost start in racing games!). I speedrun Wave Race games, where most people are playing on CRTs, and they’re always surprised i’m on LCD! Not that i think it matters much in racing games!


#1053

I have both an OSSC and an FM. The OSSC is fantastic and almost unbeatable for 240p and 480p if your TV plays nice, but I ain’t going anywhere near it with 480i. The FM stays on my stand for deinterlacing.

Let’s not act like no frame buffer doesn’t limit the OSSC either. Compatibility, easy picture manipulation and advanced processes are limited or non existent. It’s awesome owning both and yet I can still see how another device could leave them both in the dust if made well.


#1054

I don’t do a lot of 480i but I tend to agree with you on this point. Honestly, we need a 4k solution that accepts everything from 240p to 1080p (and the ability to take RGB, component, vga and HDMI) and scales it to 4K. None of these sets are going to be that great with double upscaling. Adding the abilities of both devices would be a must. I honestly don’t understand why that hasn’t happened yet.


#1055

Growing up the big 32 inch crt fancy set my parents had for the living room was a Mitsubishi, and it was amazing. I used to hook my SNES up to in S-Video.


#1056

That’s the only reason I haven’t gotten the ossc. I made the jump to 4K in 2016 and I’ve been waiting for a box with the features you mentioned ever since.


#1057

I drive a Mazda and it’s a great car because of its design. When it’s time to buy again, it’ll either be a Mazda or a Honda for me in all likelihood.

As for the other discussion, I’m very fond of the RetroTINK2x because it’s a no thought device for quick and easy retro gaming on an HDTV. Now that the Component cable has arrived, I absolutely love it.


#1058

There needs to be a device, that has a framebuffer but has the option of not using it. For the flexibility of upscaling like the OSSC does, or increasing compatibility and use the FB. Or the option to say bob deinterlacing is a blight on the human eye and so you’re playing a 480i game so he’s some proper deinterlacing and use the FB.

Hopefully that is something Micomsoft is considering for what ever ends up replacing the framemeister. I will say though it needs to take more than just the best quality options of video (RGB, component, VGA, HDMI). There’s still a few consoles that either have no RGB/Component option, or there was one, and now the person making it has left the scene and its not happening any more. Prime example is the Atari 7800, the dude making the S-Video board doesn’t any more and no one has picked up the slack, so the best option there is a simple composite video mod. It’s also one of the issues I have with the OSSC. I need to keep my FM hooked up if I got one, not just for 480i but also the consoles that don’t have anyway of getting RGB/Component out of them.


#1059

I’d love an OSSC mk2 with an optional frame buffer, it would be perfect for those games that don’t need quick reactions and are interlaced only.


#1060

The S-video port might be a cost issue but I agree it should be an option. But honestly, there should be no reason you can’t plug the yellow composite into the green component input on the ossc or any other future device.


#1061

Yep. I love my Framemeister, but can’t wait for its successor or a new OSSC to get 4k output. Heck, since I’m usually playing PS1 content via PS2 component, I’d love a RetroTINK-on-steroids 9x with an integrated scanline generator. My TV always tries to get too clever with upscaling 720p to 4k, so scanlines are always juuuust a touch out of rhythm. Despite the nice 2160/720 math, I actually have to reintroduce overscan to get them to look decent.


#1062

You basically have the same idea I have for a perfect game scaler. The other potential benefit of a frame buffer is maintaining integer sharpness. You can frame say 960p (line doubled 480) in a 1080p window to completely circumvent a TV’s interpolation to a non integer.

Composite could be consolidated with component, but idk if Dterminal would take precedence for Micomsoft


#1063

I made a suggestion on shmups that an ossc2 should use the kind of scaler that’s being modded into consoles, but I haven’t heard back on it. Compatibility is one thing, but supporting integer scaling and proper de-interlacing would make this the true killer app.

Anyway I really hate the way Wii NES VC games look, so I’m wondering does FBX have any color profiles I could try out?


#1064

That moment when you realize you left your CRT on for 24 hours straight. :sob: