GBS scaler: GBS 82XX - Upscale, deinterlace and now downsample
It takes 480i/480p and spits out 240p via RGBHV or Ypbpr
Is the benefit of 240p over the 480i that there is no flicker?
Also don’t you lose some visual information?(this may be a dumb question)
Yeah, no flicker and it can help the sprites look more natural for 240p 2D games* that got 480i only ports. Unfortunately some devs would filter the sprites in these 480i ports so you can’t get the original 240p look even if you downscale. Also worth mentioning, it messes up the display of the ‘flickering sprite’ technique some games used.
You do lose some detail for games with assets intended to be viewed at 480i/480p but in some cases it’s worth it like in Marvel VS Capcom 2 where the sprites and 3D backgrounds integrate a whole lot better.
*I did come across someone who liked to patch the 3D Maximo games to display in 240p because he said it was internally 240p or something. There could be other cases like this so maybe it’s not just 2D games?
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Awesome, I’ll take a look into the GBS. MvC2 is one of my fav games and there’s a few other 480i only games I own like metal slug 3 which could benefit from being downscaled to 240p
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I only want it for Mega Man 9 and 10 on Wii which default to 480i and have no 240p mode. I still don’t understand how that happened.
Has anyone every successfully downscaled those games?
Sounds like it needs some under the hood work to make it look good before downscaling:
Two great candidates for downscale champions were Mega Man 9 and 10, created in the Full HD era inspired by the NES 8-bit aesthetic (before it was cool). Being able to display them in real 240p on a 15kHz CRT would be like finding the missing link between those ages. However, the way the game is displayed is not very conducive to downscaling. Apparently, the game was designed in 640x560 (judging from the original BMP promotion screens), which results in an aspect ratio of 8: 7, identical to the NES internal resolution, with a 2.5x scaling in relation to the resolution of the NES (256x244), and then the game screen was probably stretched arbitrarily to the screen resolution of each system and output format. In the case of the PS3 at 480p, either the vertical dimension doesn’t exactly fall on the 240p lines, or the vertical scaling of the content is uneven, or both. The fact is that the image resulting from the GBS Control downscale is somewhat blurred, as shown in the comparison below.
^Mega Man 10 for PS3 at 480p downscaled to 240p. Below, Mega Man 4 for NES with NESRGB on the real console. Both connected to a 15kHz CRT.
In the top image, the sprite’s pixels are not evenly distributed over the horizontal lines. The iddle Mega Man sprite is 24 pixels tall, and in the image below is drawn over exactly 24 scan lines of the CRT. In the top image, it is drawn over 22 lines, so, naturally, the details of the sprite do not match the lines of the CRT and totally disappear (like in the front of the helmet) or become blurry (like the mouth and eyes)
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Oh wow great post. The whole NES ratio issue makes everything make a lot more sense
I suppose the same issues would persist for the Wii version?
Nice. Any online stores selling prebuilt GBS Scalers with 240p functionality?
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I think so, this thread mentions the bad scaling on Wii:
Haha well, now the Mega Man games work perfectly in 256x240! I already tried that resolution before but I just remembered that at first, I had the Wii set to widescreen in the emulator settings, so that’s probably why it didn’t look correct. Now they literally look exactly like the NES games, so awesome!
I tried the Wii on a CRT again and indeed the horizontal shimmering does happen, although it’s much less noticeable than on an LCD. I also made sure that the Wii was set to 4:3, hahaha.
https://imgur.com/a/xiYiQvn (these two images don’t show when being quoted. See above)
It’s pretty hard to see in the pictures, but the eye and the ear change size again. If you run the game in Dolphin in 640x480, you can see it, it looks exactly like that on the real Wii. What I did was at the start of a stage, move left so that Mega Man moves but the screen doesn’t scroll.
Same issue but on an LCD:
If I’m reading it right, it sounds like you might be able to get it looking correct through dolphin?
I’m 100% sure this is not the case. On my version of Dolphin, with the settings I described, it looks like an NES outputting 256x240 in RGB.
Steam versions of 9/10 in MMLC2 has a perfect scale workaround (at 1080p only it seems, sadly): Steam Community :: Guide :: Perfect Scale for MM9 and MM10
This post is interesting, he mentions playing it in a window will give you perfect scaling:
Guys! Look what I got.
https://s5.postimg.org/sz36euuiv/MM9.png (dead link)
If anyone doesn’t mind playing in a window, it does compress to perfection.
Setting my desktop to 800x600 helps make it look bigger.This is the only solution I could find.
Damn you, Legacy Collection 2.
Possible that you could set it to 480p and then downscale from there (or use CRT emu driver?) but I don’t really know without checking this out myself.
This dude will be selling pre-built ones with GBS Control mod: https://www.tindie.com/products/chipnetics/modified-gbs8200-rgb-to-vga-converter/
He’s adding the clock-gen mod and 100ohm resistor mod so is bumping the price to $74.99+Shipping (comes with, PSU and a case) but he’s not confirmed if he’s done the other recommended mods to reduce noise. It might be fine without them though.
There’s another that will be sold by Zerohimself but it’s not out yet: https://www.gbscaio.com/
This one has Scart input so you don’t need to solder up your own or buy a SyncSlayer/Strike to use your Scart RGB consoles. Also looks like it has HDMI output built-in. No confirmation of clock-gen mod or the recommended mods. This one will probably be a lot more expensive than the chipnetics version I assume.
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I don’t think Mega Man 9 and 10 output at 480p on Wii. I think it’s 480i no matter what.
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I was talking about the PC version
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Playing in the dark in Gunspike (Dreamcast). Here’s some character icons. Setup: Japanese Dreamcast HKT-3000 with VGA cable and audio, LG F920P CRT VGA Monitor and Trust Soundbar.
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(mad scientist voice)“But what if we use a line doubler and then downscale it”
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You beautiful mad man.
Some Wii U and PS2 screens via OSSC on an LCD monitor:
Mega Man 9:
Mega Man 10:
Armored Core 2:
Prince of Persia - Sands of Time:
Prince of Persia - Warrior Within:
Prince of Persia - The Two Thrones:
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